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yes it was harsh.my grandfather survived.but we have a history of this.his ancestor Alexander Osborne survived the mommouth rebellion in 1685 when the pitchfork army of poor peasants were routed.He was one of the few to escape with their lives.going into hiding when judge jeffries was hanging them.His brothers and neighbours were hung drawn and quartered with their entrails hung on trees all the way up to london.Alexander went into hiding and was listed as a rebel not taken.Upon doing years of genealogical research it transpired some of them were sold as slaves to the colonies,especilly the caribbean and australia.There is an osborne nut in brisbane who has researched his(my) family tree and estimates 250,000 offspring are descended from this man.My grandfather edward had 18 children and the 11 that survived all had on average 8 each and so on.At university one of my tutors the historian corelli barnett  wrote about the `lions led by donkeys`and his rather left wing version of the ist war in the trenches was that the conditions that the humble soldiers endured were not that much worse than the poverty they suffered in the east end or the gorbals.his theories sounded radical at the time but i can see his point. Hence i am aware how fate has led to my existence and how lucky i am.Also how absurd it all is.Also given that many of those men bred with Romany gypsies i have the belief that we (i)have the `gift`.Also we have a scant respect for any authority.My grandfather used to talk all the time about the Somme and others thought him a mad psychopath who was damaged by the experience.i suspect the madness was already in his dna.youve probably read robert graves `goodbye to all that`-i knew robert graves and he used to regress to the first world war and was convinced i was there in the trenches with him.it made for a bond between us.who knows.graves was pronounced dead in the ist world war and his obituary was in the times.he came back to life two days later..its all very strange and magical

bobby osborne ● 5805d

not having you on saramy romany grandmother came to latimer road during the ist world war-living in Sirdar road-prior to that she had led a full gypsy life,selling flowersshe bore 18 children by my grandfather ted osborne,starting when he came back from the Somme in 1918,11 survived beyond childhood.The i girl nellie died  aged 2.My father was born in 1925.All the surviving children were boys and i have many photographs of them,some together,including at my romany grandmas funeral in 1964.I knew most off them as, surprisingly,they lived to old age despite abusing their bodies with drink and violence.My grandmother was extremely tough and had her last runt(popeye)well into her late 40`s-he was a bit simple but the rest were as sharp as tacks.She also used to deliver coal when her sons were fighting in the war,though most avoided the war because the black market provided better opportunities.i have good photos of my father being arrested and put in the glass house in the early 50`s for fleeing from his national service.my granddad ted was a psychopath and was bemedalled on the somme,he was in middlesex rifles and tried to join up for the 2nd war aged 55.he was arrested for causing a disturbance when they refused.he was a bare knuckle boxer before the ist war and i have lovely photos of him..they all used to box at lime grove as well as in the streets.it was a very harsh time to be illitearate and poor.As dan points out TB was rife and we were living in slums all round north kensington.my uncles were mainly low life criminals and totters.they only started making money in the I960`s.when they died the coffins would be put on the horse and cart and driven slowly through the streets by our nags to gunnersbury cemetry.many of their funerals were in the local papers.i am the first creature in my genealogical history to be able to read or write.all my uncles had 7 or 8 children so i have 100s of cousins all over the manor though most were moved out when the gentrification started.2 of my coisins who i grew up with were murdered in wormwood scrubs when they got involved in drugs wars.This is only half of it and i could tell you stories that you would not believe.I have documented all this and hope to complete the book sometime.It must sound far fetched but i can assure you it is not-if anyone wants to see photos i can post them -though it is probably boring for most people and not much to do with having lunch in brook green.

bobby osborne ● 5814d

not related to gideon osborne dan tho i know where you are coming from.if you lived in clarendon road in the 50`s n 60`s you will surely remember my grandad Ted Osborne`s junk shop ,he used to recondition  gas stoves.My nan, nellie osborne owned the shop at the top of Portland rd what is now an architects practice.i have photos of her with my dad and his brother leslie on the pavement on jubilee day 1937.she was a romany gypsy and she took in orphans from the spanish civil war,the houses were all in her name because she could read and write and she didnt go down the pub every night and gamble it away..also white city dog track where my grandad sold papers(trap 6 and1) both my grandads were boxers.my grandad Ted osborne was a bare knuckle boxer,his brother,stanley, died in the ring at the then boys boxing club at kensal rise.i used to box at the alexander and seven feathers club .i have hundreds of photos of my family,my dad was one of 18,17 boys and i girl,the girl sadly died aged 2.If you were on that manor you surely remember Ted Canon,the gangster.my dads wake was held at the cobden club befor the yuppie took it over..the whole street was lined with wreaths.My uncle Leslie did 21 years in Brixton,he was the best cat burglar in London he broke into the Lord mayors house and sold sections of the gold chain in all the boozers.we had a pet monkey called a word i cant use what rhymed with banker.We cannot live like that anymorewhere did you drink.?If you are trying to imply that i am some public school fantasist spinnin a yarn you are mistaken and you are being a smart arse.i am giving you some local information and telling you about my family and you are being a prat.if you doubt any of this take a wager with me and i will give you all the documentary evidence you need.or you could apologise for being smug.

bobby osborne ● 5815d