Forum Topic

Old routemaster being used as rail replacement

I appreciate it must have been a struggle to get home last night for most people but it was so nice to see one of the old buses chugging down Wood Lane.  And at the moment it is actually parked outside White City.

Carol Burge ● 5791d21 Comments

To be fair, Lina, buses are far more accessible than say 20 years ago. The bendy bus could take on a push-chair through more than one of its entrances; the old Routemasters, much as I like them, could not and the push-chair had to be collapsed whilst boarding passengers behind tut-tutted. You now get buses than can "kneel" to make boarding wheelchairs and prams, and some buses have slide-out platforms to enable wheelchair users to board un-assisted under their own wheelchair's steam. Whilst a whole host of people worked towards this, a lot of credit should go to Ken Livingstone for enthusiastically embracing 'disabled access' By contrast what has Bojo done? - start to abolish the bendy bus before replacements sre held.

Dan Filson ● 5776d

So, more struggling onto a bus with a pushchair for me then. Maybe I ought to buy a car. I find children or anything to do with children is always treated as a very low priority. Very sad.

Lina Leaman ● 5776d

Heard Boris speak last night - he said the first bendy bus would be withdrawn on July 24th and that they belonged in a museum of failed initiatives - or words to that effect. He didn't say they would ALL go - but that seemed to be the implication.

Sara Nathan ● 5776d

Must be Bob Newhart in charge of the 272 bus maps and scheduling then.

Dan Filson ● 5781d

You're thinking of Bob Kiley.  Bob Newhart is an American comedian.

Richard Jennings ● 5782d

Isn't he the American paid such a fortune to come here and transform the tfl system - but didn't? Or have I got the wrong chap?

Sara Nathan ● 5782d

One irritating feature of some modern buses is that in one or two of the forward facing seats there is nothing to hold onto, thus making being pitched forward all the easier.Who's Bob Newhart? The bus passenger's Jack Kerouac?

Dan Filson ● 5782d

Very Bob Newhart, all this. I think the training of the drivers as well as the engines/gears has a tad to do with it! "Hold very tight please, ding, ding!" F & S

Vivienne James ● 5784d

"would hop off whilst the bus was still moving and not gauge correctly the skill of doing a running landing."We used to get a lot of practice at that, not only on buses but also slam-door trains.  You can still do a running landing on the Paris Métro if the driver releases the doors before the train stops, as quite often happens on some lines."The great virtue of the Routemaster to me was the smoother ride compared both to its predecessors ..."Actually I found them less smooth than the RT, probably because they had more power which some drivers misused, just as happens to a greater extent with the even more powerful modern buses.  I had a ride on an RT during the last few pre-bendy days on route 73, and it was lovely and smooth and leisurely.

Richard Jennings ● 5787d

Bendy bus - lots to be said for it, in terms of fast loading/unloading; serious problems with fare evasion, which might not be so severe in other parts of London; theoretically good for inner-city mass-transport over shortish hops; rated - perhaps unfairly, given it is articulated lorries that seem to be the bigger killers - as potentially lethal however for cycles caught on the inside, so not quite as suitable for the inner city as hoped, which wa; their raison d'etre. Also at some bus stops they overlap road junctions etc - see Loftus Road junction with Uxbridge Road. Brief frisson of fires breaking out for reasons which I imagine they have now cracked. Personally, I'm sorry to see them go, but I see why.Routemaster - great bus for 2-person operation. Hugh savings in running costs achieved by 1-person operations of almost any other marque of bus, also owing to cheaper engine maintenance, the RM apparently being a bugger to service. The obvious handiness of being able to hop on and hop off are clear, but sadly many of those hopping off would nip round the back and into oncoming traffic, or would hop off whilst the bus was still moving and not gauge correctly the skill of doing a running landing. Fare evaders could evade the conductor by hopping off, so it took astute movement around the bus by the conductor always to be near the platform as bus stops approached. The great virtue of the Routemaster to me was the smoother ride compared both to its predecessors, to trolleybuses (yes, I know they were smooth, but they accelersted quite sharply) and to the successors. I have a suspicion one got thrown around less because of the positioning of the wheels in the four corners, rather than inbound, and also because there was either a governor regulating acceleration or the automatic gearbox slowed it, and because braking was softer. The aggressive braking of the new buses causes a lot of being thrown forward, which is very dangerous if you are facing backwards to leave by the middle doors (one of the reasons I always try to leave by the front doors is so I can always see what the driver seers and brace myself accordingly). On balance a great though uneconomic bus

Dan Filson ● 5787d

Richard, LT's insurers fell over themselves in offers of compensation. My lad was lucky though and suffered only a bent leg and the humiliation of having his trousers cut off on the public pavement... by professionals of course! even the air ambulance was hovering but didn't land. The problem was that any vehicle behind cannot see what is happening inside the "biscuit box" style modern double decker whereas the open platform at the rear of the routemastern allows the following traffic to predict what passengers will do to a degree. I am not saying that one is better than the other H&S wise, arguments for both, I think. And arguments for training the drivers... as on a routemaster in my day, (never thought I would use that phrase) the conductor would have grabbed my son and told him " No yer don't Sonny... wait fer the stop" How much money in wages for bus conductors now goes into the compensation pot? And what do we save? Now they are looking to reopen some of the railways closed by Dr Beeching in the 60s.... may I say, "Well DUH!"

Vivienne James ● 5787d

But they are terrifying to cyclists - I mean REALLY scary - as well as dangerous, obstruct other traffic, and are a gift to fare dodgers

Sara Nathan ● 5787d

"And that's a very good argument for them. Are there any others?"Well, they're exceptionally good at carrying lots of people and getting them into and out of the bus quickly.  Their replacement by double-deckers will result in either more buses or lower route capacity, and dwell times (stationary time at bus stops) will be increased.

Richard Jennings ● 5787d

I'm sure you are right - they were introduced post my buggy phase and pre the zimmer frame one. And that's a very good arguement for them.Are there any others?

Sara Nathan ● 5787d

"my son was mown down by a motorbike coming up the inside of a "modern" bus that opened its doors not at a stop"Ugh, nasty. I'm sorry to hear about your son's accident.  Did you claim compensation from London Buses or the bus operator for a clear failure in their duty of care to passengers?  Opening the doors not at a stop and not close to the kerb is a clear breach of good driving standards, I would have thought, and not exactly a strong argument in favour of Routemasters on safety grounds.

Richard Jennings ● 5788d

Sara, you need to try travelling on a bus with a buggy to see how useful the bendy buses are. They are far more spacious than any other bus so you can easily take a pushchair on board without feeling like you are taking up half the bus and without having to do any awkward manouevering about. You can just get in via one of the back doors and park the buggy quite easily. I suspect they are easier for disabled people too as I once saw a woman in a wheelchair trying to get on board the C1 bus. After going backwards and forwards to try and squeeze through the narrow space, she finally gave up and got off.

Lina Leaman ● 5788d

Is there anything to be said in favour of the bendy bus?I can't think of anything...Seldom can an innovation been so universally rejected - and more so with familiarity unusually.

Sara Nathan ● 5788d

I was advised by a senior registrar in A&E that doctors liked the routemaster because the drivers behind could see what was happening on these buses, and my son was mown down by a motorbike coming up the inside of a "modern" bus that opened its doors not at a stop, and drivers behind have no view of what passengers are doing. So there are H&S issues that support the routemaster too.

Vivienne James ● 5788d

"I assume it will have air-con as there seems not to be the fabulous front windows upstairs that opened and allowed a fierce cool breeze on the hot summer days as you bowled along." What you've seen are only the design ideas that won the competition. The Aston Martin/Foster design (on the left) has a heavily curved front that makes it difficult to see all of the destination blind, and both designs seem to have too long a wheelbase for London's streets.  It remains to be seen what the six short-listed manufacturers will come up with, but they might well look completely different.The design rules for the competition specified air conditioning only for the driver's cab, and "air cooling" for the upper deck.  I don't know whether the spec is still the same.I came across an interesting letter which appeared in The Times in December 2007:Reintroducing open platform buses would require conductors on all routes, as they would be required to safely manage access. This would cost £600 million – raising this money would require a huge fare rise for London’s six million daily bus passengers. The single fare would have to rise from 90p to at least £1.50 and the weekly pass from £13 to at least £21. Open platform buses mean more passenger deaths. The passenger fatality rate on Routemasters is more than double that of other London buses.The writer was none other than David Brown, MD of Surface Transport at TfL, the very man who said on 4 June 2009: "now we hand the baton to the bus manufacturers to turn those fantastic ideas into a brand new bus for the Capital's fleet."I wonder what changed his mind?  Oh, yes.  Different Mayor in charge!

Richard Jennings ● 5788d

I assume it will have air-con as there seems not to be the fabulous front windows upstairs that opened and allowed a fierce cool breeze on the hot summer days as you bowled along.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7892748.stm

Vivienne James ● 5789d

Isn't it funny how fond the the old Routemaster we are? What do you think of the new one's design?

Vivienne James ● 5789d